Santosh Dass MBE, Vice Chair Anti Caste
Discrimination Alliance, President, Federation of Ambedkarite and Buddhist
Organisations UK
Santosh
is a human rights and equality campaigner living in London. She is an ex civil
servant and held a number of senior roles at the Department of Health including
leading on Better Regulations, Governance and Risk Management. Santosh is one
of the leading figures in Campaign to outlaw caste based discrimination in the
UK. She has taken up this issue and that of the rising atrocities against
Dalits in India at the United Nations Committee for the Elimination of Racial
Discrimination. Santosh is the Vice Chair of the Anti-Caste Discrimination
Alliance and President of Federation of Ambedkarite and Buddhist Organisations,
UK. She is the founder of Caste Watch UK, Anti Caste Discrimination Alliance
and IndiaMatters UK. In 2014, Santosh put forward and pursued a proposal for
purchasing the 10 King Henry’s Road, the House Dr Baba Saheb Ambedkar lived in
between 1921-1922 and turn it into a
memorial. The House was finally purchased by the Government of Maharashtra in
September 2015. Santosh was awarded an MBE in the Queen’s Birthday Honours for
her services to Better Regulation at the Department of Health.
Santosh Dass in conversation with Vidya Bhushan
Rawat
What
are your initial reactions to the Bharat Bandh organized by various Dalit
organisations on 2 April 2018 against the attempt to dilute the SC-ST
Prevention of Atrocities Act?
Total admiration! The solidarity and unity of the hundreds of thousands of men and women that day was breathtaking. It takes a lot of courage to come out on the streets and protest. People took to the streets knowing they would face repercussions afterwards – including physical violence and threats to life and limb and livelihoods. Those who died are true martyrs in the cause and challenging the shackles of Caste. That’s how they’ll be remembered.
Total admiration! The solidarity and unity of the hundreds of thousands of men and women that day was breathtaking. It takes a lot of courage to come out on the streets and protest. People took to the streets knowing they would face repercussions afterwards – including physical violence and threats to life and limb and livelihoods. Those who died are true martyrs in the cause and challenging the shackles of Caste. That’s how they’ll be remembered.
The 2 April protest was a culmination of the years and years of discrimination,
social exclusion, human rights abuses and the erosion of basic rights to an
education, healthcare, and employment. And, never forget the frightening abuse
of Dalit women and girls. As far as crimes against Dalits are concerned we have
the latest data from the National Crime Records Bureau. Between 2006 and 2016,
the crime rate against Dalits rose more than eightfold. In 2006, there were 2.4
crimes per 100,000 Dalits. By 2016 it had soared to 20.3.
The
Judgment by the Supreme Court is an arrogant, brazen and outrageous attempt by
the Indian Government to dilute the legislation. Protests like this one and that
of Prakash Ambedkar’s Maharashtra Bandh
in January following the violence against Dalits at Bhima Koregaon help to
highlight the burning issues that the SC/STs face day-in, day-out.
Looking
to the future from this protest and the ones before that, I’m reminded of Babasaheb Ambedkar’s powerful
words: “We must stand on our own feet and fight as best as we can for our
rights. So carry on your agitation and organize your forces. Power and prestige
will come to you through struggle.”
How
do you respond to Indian media’s allegation of violence instigated by the
Dalits? And not reporting the failure of the state mechanism to protect the
interest of the Dalits?
I
have access to a few of the Indian television channels in the UK. Most appear
to be little else but mouthpieces for the Indian Government spouting the party
line. The sight of braying ‘experts’ vying for the camera and shouting each
other down is a total switch-off. Discussion and debate goes out the window.
I
was appalled at the TV channels’ coverage. Many stations repeated the same ‘bad
news’ footage of, say, some car set on fire. It created the impression of
hooligan behaviour rather than covering what was, overall, a very peaceful
protest on 2 April. Nothing I saw broadcast dwelt on the nine Dalits killed
during the protests. What did we see of the sheer numbers of people protesting
across India or – and this really got to me – the absence of police protection
for those marching in an orderly fashion. Since the protest, there’s been no
reporting of police brutalities against Dalits. There’s footage circulating of
police officers shamelessly knocking over motorbikes and auto rickshaws in
attempts to pin the damage on the protestors – and worse including ‘slapping’
with their hands and long wooden batons. It’s all very disturbing and
distressing to watch. I hope people are cataloguing these incidents and police
provocations.
On
9 April NDTV saw fit to run the ‘Bhatoora
fiasco’ instead of reporting on incidents of Dalits being targeted in UP or
Rajasthan or the gang rape of an eight-year-old girl in J&K. Even the UP
Government’s and the police authorities’ insensitive attitude towards the Unnae
gang-rape survivor was ‘buried’ for many months. The poor girl had to resort to
the extreme step of trying to commit suicide outside the UP Chief Minister Yogi
Adiyananth’s residence this April to demand that the police at least register the crime. It had taken place back
in June 2017! It was only when her father died in custody that the media took
an interest. They’ve since been broadcasting images of the MLA implicated in
the gang-rape strutting around cockily whilst the poor survivor and her family
are under what is essentially house arrest. Where is the Beti Bachao campaign now?
Millions
of people in India and around world are sharing news stories about the atrocities
and hate crimes faced by Dalits and minorities in India. National and regional
Government and the authorities are failing to respond to, or act against
corruption and abuses. People are able to see and read about it in real time
and form opinions like never before.
What do you
think are the reasons of continuous violence against Dalits?
Caste
divisions and Caste prejudice are social evils that have existed for thousands
of years. It’s a fact that Untouchablity was abolished in the 50s. It’s also
fact that people continue to practise the medieval ways of Untouchablity as if
nothing ever changed and minds never moved on. This was confirmed in recent
phone survey by Social Attitude Research
India of 8,065 people. 50 per cent of respondents in urban Rajasthan
admitted to practising Untouchability; as did 48 per cent of respondents in
urban UP and even 39 per cent of the Delhi respondents. Even if somebody of a
Dalit background makes progress, they are regularly reminded that their Caste
and descent is inferior. It’s a form of mind control. Huge progress needs to be
made on a number of fronts.
Sadly,
successive Indian governments and authorities have failed to implement laws or take
swift action when atrocities against Dalits have occurred. The current
Government is successfully creating divisions. What is required is robust
action against the dominant Caste perpetrators violating the human rights of
Dalits and minorities. There must be no watering down of the Scheduled Castes
and the Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act. There needs to be an
immediate and transparent investigation under the legislation to prosecute any Government
and police officials who are found to have aided and abetted criminals. There
needs to be robust implementation of the Special Courts and Exclusive Special
Courts mandated in the SC ST Act, 2015 for speedy trials. Government needs to
take swift action to deal with the unacceptable shortage of judges that is
impacting negatively on access to justice. And of course, media have a big role
to play in highlighting the shortfalls.
What
is your opinion on the Supreme Court’s order on the SC/ST Act?
Very
alarming. It’s such an unashamed act. For someone who’s worked on the need for
clarity of laws that are implementable and enforceable on the ground, I believe
the hurdles created by the Supreme Court Judgement for the victims are totally unacceptable.
Let’s be clear, the ruling is essentially leaving the fate of a victim in the
hands of someone in authority – likely to be so-called upper Caste – who will
decide whether the case can even be registered.
Dr
Anand Teletumbdeji recently summed up
the mess beautifully: “What are the
chances of a poor Dalit landless labourer taking recourse to this law? About
75% of the population, especially women and the marginalised, avoid reporting a
crime as they feel frustrated and unhappy with the way cops behave with
complainants. It is only following pressure from activists that complaints of
atrocities get into the police register. Even after the registration of a
complaint, it has to pass through prejudicial barriers – police investigation,
the indulgence of the prosecution, and the judicial verdict.”
The
crux of the matter is that in most of the cases the government officials can
easily dismiss the case as false resulting in the penalization of individuals
who file a case. It will further discourage the individual from filing the case
for the fear of retribution or backlash. Look at the Unnae UP gang rape
survivor’s experience of trying to file an FIR
with the police. And this is before the recent SC Judgement. Imagine what it would
be like in practice now! It beggars belief!
The
Bandh was a spontaneous response to a campaign on social media.
Yes.
That’s what I heard. Brilliant!
All
the laws in India deal with the issue of violation of human rights at the
individual level even when we see that the issue of the Dalits and Adivasis are
not merely individual relationship but a social disorder which discriminates
against them on the basis of their birth. You call it mass violence or mass
hatred but it is time to call it hate crime as suggested by noted author
Sujatha Gidla. What is your take on it. Will bringing out a specific law on the
lines of hate crime be effective
?
I
fully agree with Sujatha Gidlaji. In England, Wales, and
Scotland
we’ve got the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. It makes
hateful behavior towards a victim based on the victim’s membership or presumed
membership in a racial group or a religious group an aggravation in sentencing for
specified crimes. If there were the political will in India, this law could be
replicated for Caste-related ‘aggravated crimes’.
What
about Caste discrimination in the Britain?
It’s an
incontestable fact that when somebody
steps off the plane in Manchester or Montreal they don’t leave their Caste back
in Mumbai. I borrowed that gem from Lord Eric Avebury, a great champion of
social reform, in the House of Lords. Britain’s South Asian population exceeds four
million. In the UK we saw very early on that if left unchecked, the profound Caste
prejudices keep on continuing to get transplanted and take root here. Meaning, discrimination
will be perpetuated.
For nearly 20
years now I’ve been involved with the campaign to outlaw Caste discrimination
in the UK with such organisations as the Anti Caste Discrimination Alliance
(ACDA), CasteWatchUK, Dalit Solidarity Network, Federation of Ambedkarite and
Buddhist Organisations UK (FABOUK) and Voice of Dalit International.
The UK has
robust equality of treatment and equality of opportunity laws. Laws we can be justifiably
proud of. They are laws that have benefited and protected people in their place
of employment and education or when they use public services like health and
social care. There are protections on grounds of the colour of someone’s skin whether
they’re originally from India, Jamaica, Nigeria, Manchester or Glasgow. There
are protections for people on grounds of disability, sexuality and others. Yet if
someone is discriminated against or harassed because of their Caste there’s no
legislation in place to protect them.
When
we invited people to tell us about their experiences of discrimination in the
UK, the findings of which we published in our, the ACDA’s 2009 report A hidden
Apartheid, two cases out of the many stand out for me in
particular. The first was the case of a vulnerable elderly Indian woman in the
East Midlands. She had faced discrimination and, as a result, neglect at the
hands of her carer. The second had been a young personal secretary in the
office of a radio station broadcasting mainly to the Punjabi diaspora. The
discrimination in both cases had one feature in common the Caste divide of the
people concerned.
The ACDA
report was instrumental in securing Section 9(5) a of the Equality Act 2010
inserted at the late stage in the law by the then Labour Government. This gave
the relevant Minister a power to outlaw Caste discrimination if a Government-commissioned
study found evidence of Caste discrimination. The evidence was there. The
National Institute of Economic and Social Research’s 2010 report confirmed Caste
discrimination is no different to discrimination on grounds of disability,
gender, colour, age or sexuality in the UK. But the
Government did nothing but stonewall.
Parliament
agreed Government must
legislate to outlaw Caste discrimination in April 2013. This didn’t come
about just like that. It followed an inspired amendment to the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill (ERR Bill) following
an ACDA meeting in November 2012 calling on the Government to act. This meeting
was chaired by Lord Eric Avebury. A number of members of both house of
Parliament including Baroness Thornton – the Labour Government Minister who had
paved the way for legislative power in the 2010 Equality Act attended the
meeting. Straight after the meeting Baroness Thornton tabled a very important
and inspired amendment to the ERR Bill that was progressing through Parliament
at the time. Since April 2013, the Government did all it can to delay implementation
of the law.
What’s
the latest on the UK Parliament’s direction to outlaw Caste discrimination?
Last
year the Government finally launched the long awaited public consultation. Given
Parliament expressed direction to legislate in 2013, the consultation should
have been about how best to legislate. Instead, we got a significant
lack of argument in favour of implementation of the law and a consultation
skewed towards a case law option. This was supported with significant omissions and rhetoric - some of
which had been peddled by the anti Caste law Hindu lobby. One red herring in the consultation was
mentioning the Tirkey v Chandhok
Employment Tribunal (ET) case as a way of getting legal justice. This case law
offers no potential protection for victims of ‘everyday’
discrimination based on Caste. Furthermore, Government contradicted itself
and acknowledged that that judgment
was not a
definitive assessment because each claim would need to show
discrimination based on the claimant’s descent. That’s a legal minefield. Many
features of Caste aren’t covered by descent. An ET hardly offers redress to a
patient whose carer neglects them on Caste
grounds. Furthermore, discrimination laws are not just about providing
legal justice. They’re about prevention and changing behaviours too. The recent
ET hasn’t changed the behaviours in the case of woman being abused on the
factory floor on Caste grounds. Only when we have the
clarity of law, will we have structures for redress that have preventative
effects and educational benefits people of all Castes. The law would work in both directions. In the longer
term this will help improve community cohesion. Continuing the status
quo can only reinforce existing Caste consciousness and bias, and act as
propaganda for the perpetuation of Caste and its heinous traditional
prejudices.
The
consultation closed in September 2017. They’ve had over 16,000 responses. The
Government’s own independent Equality and Human Rights Commission has called
for implementation of the law in response to the consultation that they recently
shared with me. The Government said it would provide a response to the
consultation in early 2018. We’re not holding our breath they’ll do the right
thing. If they don’t, the campaign will continue!
Has the UK government
surrendered to the Hindu right wing on the Caste law? Is it more with business
interests in India?
Without a doubt, they’re
lobbying hard to halt the outlawing of Caste discrimination in this country.
They’ve voiced their opposition via their MPs in Parliament in private and
public. They’ve peddled lots of misinformation about the impact of the law.
They’ve created smokescreens. They’ve scare-mongered. They’ve denied that there
could even be such a thing as Caste discrimination! Well, they would say that,
wouldn’t they? And, no surprise, those opposing the law have seen fit to stoop
to personal vilification and insults. It’s what social media was invented for,
right?
A lot of it is
down to catching or guaranteeing votes and post-Brexit business deals with
India. Successive Governments since 2010 including Mrs Theresa May’s have shown
they’re influenced by religious factions on both those counts. Indeed Caste law featured
heavily as an issue in both of the last two General Elections. For example, the
body representing Hindu temples openly directed their communities to vote for
the Conservative Party. Why? Because it believed that party wouldn’t legislate
against Caste discrimination. By listening to the opposition to the Caste
struggle is tantamount to saying, ‘Let’s not introduce legislation
against race, disability or gender discrimination. Some faction might get huffy
about it if they can’t perpetuate their old ways.’
What
role do you see for the Indian diaspora in the Western World, particularly UK,
USA and Canada towards the issues of the Dalits and marginalized in India.
Hindu Council in UK and USA has been opposed to anything that ‘defames’ India?
I can speak for the UK position. I’m a member of the
second-generation Indian diaspora living in the UK. My family still has links
with family in India. Through my work on equality and Dalit issues here in the
UK I have interacted with activists and NGOs working in this country, in India
and around the world. We have a duty to highlight and raise issues in the media
and other forums that are not in keeping with the values of equality and human
rights. There must be no compromise in this regard. This does not make us
anti-National! Caste
should be recognised as a root cause of the misery of millions of Dalits. It’s
the root cause of trafficking, of modern day slavery and poverty. Unless we
raise the profile of the oppressed Dalits, nothing will change.
You
have been very active with the Human Rights groups, anti-Caste discrimination
organisations apart from Ambedkarite organisations. Do you think they can work
together on a common agenda or you feel no need of it? Has there been any
effort in this direction?
Absolutely.
We have more in common than what divides us. There is a common platform from
which we can all make a difference and have made a difference. This includes
the many joint statements we have submitted on issues including about atrocities
against Dalits and the need to outlaw Caste discrimination in the UK. We have
stood shoulder to shoulder in public protests.
How
do you find the issue of Women being addressed in the organizational structures
of the various organisations in the diaspora?
I
live in a patriarchal community. We have a generation of leaders in the
religious institutions who do not surrender their executive positions to women
– no matter how exceptional they are. They are quick to use women to do the
work and take the credit. The same can be said of some NGOs. That said I have
been able to make huge difference as the President of FABOUK and as a Vice
Chair of ACDA. Women have so much to offer. Sometimes raising this issue falls
on deaf ears but we must persist!
You
have participated in the meetings of UN Committee for Elimination of Racial Discrimination
(UN CERD) in and presented reports. Do you think that UN platform can be
effective in dealing with the Caste discrimination issue?
Yes
I did in 2016 and 2017. And my colleagues at the ACDA also did so in 2011 to
push for the implementation of the 2010 law on Caste. UN CERD is a very useful
platform because it helps internationalize issues and the Committee makes recommendations.
For example I was able to highlight at a UN meeting the erosion of fundamental
rights of freedom of speech and expression guaranteed in India’s Constitution;
the plight of those who speak up for human rights and justice and call the
Government to account on the social evils of Caste related atrocities and
discrimination persecution, incarceration, and being labelled anti-National. I
was able to use Mr Chandrasekhar Ravan, Soni Suri, Professor Siababa, Professor
Kancha Illaiah Shepherd and Gauri
Lankesh as examples. I was able to highlight incidents of Caste-related
violence and social exclusion that includes the Saharanpur UP violence against
Dalits. I was able raise the impact of open coalmining in Chhattisgarh India
that’s causing mass relocation of tribal and Adivasi people that has to be seen
as nothing short of ethnic cleansing.
One
area I have continued to highlight is the violence against women in India and the
experience of Dalit girls and women seeking justice in cases of rape. I was
able to highlight recently the Human Rights Watch’s 2017 report “Everyone Blames Me - Barriers to justice and support for sexual assault
survivors in India”. We
have chilling examples of local village Councils deterring women and girls from
reporting cases of rape by a higher a Caste men or gang rapes; and of police
delaying, or not even registering the First Incident Report. Some girls and
women are further subjected to the humiliating two finger intimate examination
by doctors. No civilized society should allow this abhorrent practice.
The
recent gang-rapes of the 8 year-old in J&K and the minor in UP are a
fraction of what’s really happening to some girls and women in India. It breaks
my heart that they and their families are not getting the justice they deserve.
You
did a lot of work in making the Ambedkar memorial a reality in London. It is
historical and we are proud of the initiative taken by you in FABO. What is the
status of it today ? How satisfied are you with the things happening there ?
Thank
you. To be honest it’s a dream come true. Everything I wanted for the house and
more has been delivered with thanks to Mr Badoleji at the Government of Maharashtra. I also thank Mr R K Gaikwadji, Mr Ramesh Katkeji in Mumbai, Mr Arun Kumarji,
Mr Gautamji, Mr Ken Hunt in the UK,
and Mr Sunil Kumarji at the India
High Commission in the UK for their unflinching support. Of course there were
others who lobbied for the House once I had submitted my proposal to GOM.
Dr Ambedkar’s short biography in
the Oxford Dictionary of National
Biography lists him as one of the men and women who have shaped British
history and culture. This demonstrates his standing in the UK. 10
King Henry’s Road is highly important for followers of Dr Ambedkar and anyone
who is interested in equality and human rights because it marks an important
period in his life.
The
Ambedkar House London has now been fully refurbished. It already has a The Blue Plaque on the outside of it. At the
time of purchase in September 2015, the house was in total disrepair. Since
then it’s been developed and refurbished. For example, the basement flat rooms
have been merged into one; it’s had external repairs including repointing of
bricks and making safe the front garden; it’s been rewired for electricity,
re-decorated retaining the original features including fireplaces, ceiling
roses and coving, wood staircase. A conservatory has been installed and the
garden’s been landscaped.
We
also now have a lovely library. Babasahab left a huge body of writings spanning forty years and
covering a variety of subjects, amongst them history, economics, anthropology,
politics philosophy and law. These writings are proof-positive of his prowess,
his intellectual rigour and his clarity of thought. He got to the root of the
problems that his community and the new nation were facing. In a culture that
is largely oral, leaving so much written work – speeches, journals, books – are
his gift not only to subsequent generations of Indians but also to anyone
anywhere with an interest in human rights, the theory and practice of equal
treatment issues and civil rights movements. We hope to have
hard copies of Dr Ambedkar’s works sitting on the shelves soon!
I’ve
been honoured to be a member of the Ambedkar
Memorial Advisory Committee Mr Badoleji
set up. It’s allowed me shape the house as I set out in my proposal to the
Government of Maharashtra in 2014. I’ve been very hands-on with selecting the
furniture and fittings and the redevelopment.
The house is a wonderful
memorial to Dr Ambedkar and his remarkable legacy to the cause of social justice and social reform. I look forward
to many people taking the opportunity to visit it - especially UK school children – and learning
about the Father of the nation and his extraordinary achievements.
What
is the future of India ? Do you think political will here to deal with the
issue of Caste discrimination and untouchability. What would you suggest to
activists, intellectuals and political parties in India particularly to those
who claim to follow Baba Saheb Ambedkar.
It’s not enough to admire Babasaheb Ambedkar, say Jai Bhim or garland
his statues around the globe. Dr Ambedkar was one of the finest
academics of his generation, a prolific writer, a social reformer, an
outstanding economist, an empowerer of women in India, and a nation builder. His initiatives as India’s Labour
minister led to 8-hour working days – down from 14 hours a day. He was instrumental in the introduction of the
Minimum Wages Act. Those are policies that the Trade Unions here in the UK
would have been proud of. Those who value justice and
equality must have the will and courage to follow his example and fight for the
things he gave his life for.
I say to those in positions of power or able to
influence, if you admire Dr Ambedkar, then deliver the Constitution in full and
annihilate Caste. Implement and enforce the laws and funds designed to protect
and uplift those who have been violated and marginalized for thousands of
years. Provide
swift and robust action against the dominant Caste perpetrators violating the
human rights of Dalits and minorities. Don’t water down Scheduled Castes and
the Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act. Take swift action to deal
with the unacceptable shortage of judges that is impacting negatively on access
to justice. Provide good education and healthcare and jobs.
The SC/ST legislation that is being watered
down is helping social boycott victims challenge community corrupt and
corrupting practices. The medial justice system, the local Panchayats must go!
Finally,
don’t just share or chant slogans like Beti
Bachao. Save, educate, protect, and empower all girls and women in India. They
have a lot offer.
